I have C,G and A harps. Cant figure out which harps I need for sax (alto, tenor and soprano) music...but I've ruled out C G and A...just doesnt sound right.

Thanks

Boy, Ed! Did you open up a can of worms! Okay, here goes...

The harmonica is considered a "Concert Pitch" instrument. This means that when you play a C4 (aka "Middle C" ) on your harmonica, it sounds the same as a C4 on the piano. The Saxophone, on the other hand, is considered a "Transposing instrument", which is a musical instrument whose music is notated at a pitch different from the pitch that actually sounds (concert pitch). Playing a written C on a transposing instrument produces a pitch other than C, and that pitch identifies the interval of transposition when describing the instrument. For example, a written C on a Bb Tenor Sax sounds a concert Bb.

Also, different saxophones come in different keys. The Soprano and Tenor Sax are in the key of Bb, while the Alto Sax and the Baritone Sax are in the key of Eb. SO, when we speak of the transposition of instruments like Bb Tenor sax or Eb Alto sax, we are referring to the note on the piano (or any concert pitch instrument) that sounds like “C” on the transposed instrument. A "Bb3" on the piano sounds like a "C" on the tenor sax, whereas an "Eb3" on piano sounds like "C" on the alto sax.

I've actually tried to play along with a Low Eb harp while my husband played his Alto sax. Even though I was playing a concert pitched instrument in the key of (Low) Eb, it still didn't match what he was playing.

If you want to play along with a saxophone, first you need to get the music for the piece. Is the music for a "C Instrument", or a "Bb instrument", or an "Eb instrument"? If it's for a C instrument, and you're wanting to play with an Eb Sax (or vice-versa), you're going to need to transpose the piece yourself.

This chart will help you transcribe from one to the other:
Saxophone Transposition Chart

Clear as mud?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2015 08:53PM by EarthDogHarpin.

I agree. Clear as mud. So let me muck things up a bit more. I play a B flat clarinet and an E flat alto sax.
An alto sax playing in "C" will of course be concert E flat, so you could use an E flat harp, but you could also play an A flat harp in E flat (cross harp) or a D flat harp in the E flat minor key or a G flat harp played in its E flat minor mode. So hope to heck the sax player chooses a different key, unless your harp collection is well stocked with those keys.

I'll attempt my own chart for what harps can be played along with the alto sax, starting with the example I started with. (Good thing I previewed first. The spaces get ignored)

SAX Key____Straight Harp____Cross Harp___II minor mode___VI minor mode

___C__________E flat_________A flat__________D flat_________G flat
___D flat_______E____________A______________D____________G
___D__________F_____________B flat__________E flat_________A flat
___E flat_______G flat_________B_____________E_____________A
___E__________G____________C______________F_____________B flat
___F___________A flat________D flat__________G flat_________B
___G flat_______A____________D_____________G_____________C
___G___________B flat________E flat__________A flat_________D flat
___A flat_______B____________E_____________A_____________D
___A__________C_____________F_____________B flat_________E flat
___B flat_______D flat_________G flat__________B____________E
___B__________D_____________G_____________C_____________F

If you can get the sax player to play in E, A or B, you could avoid any of the flat key harps and those would not be too challenging for the sax. If you are trying to play along with recorded music, that's a different trip. I believe there are software solutions that can actually transpose the pitch of recordings without changing the speed. Good luck!

Wow....thanks for all the very detailed info....much more than I imagined...sorry..did not anticipate opening a can of worms. I'm a beginner on the harmonica (9 weeks) and know very little about music theory...and all the rules.
Also...I'm only playing straight harp for now...want to get good at this level before trying cross harp.
However I love sax music ..especially kenny g and stephen dryfuss.

These are 2 utube videos of the music I like...perhaps if you take a peek at both..and see what key harp I would need.
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]

Again...thank you for your help...these past 9 weeks have been so much fun....sorry I waited til 72 to get started...

Don't be sorry, Ed! I didn't know all that stuff either when I first started playing the harp. Live and learn! And enjoy!

By the way, we've got one of those songs you listed, right here at Harptabs. It's in first position, too.

Ken, that's an excellent chart you made there. Bravo! As far as the spacing not being kept, if you look up in the icon bar up above the text box, you'll see what looks like a little white square with lines in it. Click on that button and it'll put in an open bracket, "code", close bracket, followed by a blank line, then another open bracket, forward slash, "code", then close bracket. Looks like:

[ code ]

[ / code ]

except without all the spacing inbetween. Put your text inside of the bracketted "code"s and it's keep the spacing/formatting.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2015 09:21PM by EarthDogHarpin.

im a alto sax player.but for deciding which harmonica key you play use the 1st or 2nd position based on what key the song is in and the type of style you want.

Ed, just got around to listening to those 2 Kenny G tunes. They both start out in the key of F. The "Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas" number plays a musical trick called modulation, so midway through the song it switches from F to C#(or D-flat). So those are the key harps you'd need to use playing straight harp. Right now, those are the 2 keys missing from my collection, but B-flat and F# harps worked pretty well in cross harp mode. If you haven't played cross harp yet, I'd highly recommend trying it. Basically it's just a matter of of using more of the draw notes when you start and end your phrases, but you'll probably need to find some tunes in a different key if you don't happen to have a B-flat or F#.
Ken

Thanks Ken, Just tried bending and can bend the 4 hole ok...but trouble with 1,2 and 3. But...will continue since I hear it takes awhile. I will expand my collection to include b-flat and f#....and grow into cross harp...

Thanks again....
Ed

Don't hold me to this, as I've been kind of busy lately, but when I get around to it, I'll see if I can't find some tunes that would fit your current harp collection (CG&A) and post links to them here. Having some good tunes to jam along with can be very helpful.

Yes, the 4 hole is one of the easiest bends, one of my favorites. The 2 hole sounds pretty cool, too--when it's bent down a whole step, but it is more of a challenge, depending on what harmonica you use. It is also possible to bend some of the upper holes 7,8.9 & even 10 on the blow. Try tilting the harp back a little or tightening up your embouchure to shrink the space between your lips. I'm probably asking too much, but you never know until you try.
Keep on jammin'
Ken

Thanks Ken...tilting helped a bit on the 3 hole...not the 2....no hurry...I'm retired and this has become a hobby that I can spend lots of time on. I got a b-flat today (seydel blues antique) ...but does not work well with the songs I had in mind...will search for a few more today...

Thanks for hanging with me

Ed

While drawing, slowly articulate the word "you." Then remember how your mouth was shaped when the note bent. It will be a little different on each hole.

Actually...that helped a lot. I was able to get hole 3 down from a B to a B-flat ...and hole 2 from a G to an F#..hole 1 would only show as blow B and draw C#. This was on 3 different C harps...so I'm guessing the tuner (an app on my iPhone) is off...regardless...the tone never changed on hole 1.....No worry...I was happy to get the bends that I got...and I'm in no hurry ..

Thanks Gene ...the word "you" was very helpful.